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> Installing 91 Dash in my 84
cdoyle
post Sep 13 2006, 09:03 PM
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Hi just found this forum, from a link over on thirdgen.org.  

Thought I would stop by and take a look, I love the wiring diagrams you have online!!

Here's my questions.

I have an 84 Camaro, and I'm in the middle of installing a dash from a 91 into it.
I have the dash in, and tonight got the car running, and seeing what works on the dash and what doesn't.

At first the oil and tach didn't work, looking at a pin diagram.  I found that one of the pins on the cluster is suppose to be grounded, so I ran a temp wire and those gages work for now.   Were are the main ground points for the dash, I heard there are 3??  G200 is one, and I checked that, and it's OK, but not sure where the others are.

The next thing that doesn't work is the fuel gage, it's pegged at full.  I put my meter on that pin, and it OL or open.  So that's leading me to think that the wire coming from the sending unit isnt' even hooked up to it.   Where does that wire come into the car at, and what color is it?  

My last question (for now) is when  you turn the key on, the 'service engine soon' light should come on right?  It not doing that for, actually all the warning lights up in that little area are dark.   The warning alarm (headlights left on ect) doesn't work either.  

Does anyone have any ideas to any of these?

Thanks
Chris.


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StevenK
post Sep 13 2006, 10:19 PM
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First off, Welcome to ATGO.  I assume your somewhere in the Austin area?

As for your wiring problems, wait till BigBabyLou has a chance to see this, he is our resident wiring smart(ass) guy.  He did all the work on mine for my LS1 swap.  I also had some bad grounds on my cluster, and he figured them out.

As for the ignition on test, yes the SES light should come on breifly


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cdoyle
post Sep 14 2006, 06:38 AM
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Hi, Thanks for the welcome.

Ya, this swap has been a learning expereince that's for sure, I have been learning a lot more about the car as I go through it, and how things work.

When I first started this, everyone I knew just looked at me and had that 'you're going to never get that back together' look on their face.    So it's kind of neat that I got it started, and have almost all the gages working (haha)

I'm actually located in Washington,  why I decided to start this project so late in the summer is beyond me.  Only have a couple more weeks of somewhat dry weather left (if any).    I'm hoping to get the gages all working, and get the car  back in the garage for the winter.

Thanks again for your help
Chris.


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BigBadLou
post Sep 14 2006, 07:42 AM
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Hey Chris,

it's Lou from TGO. I know why you're here. And I know you need help. Oh right, that's WHY you're here. laugh.gif

First, your fuel gauge. It comes into the cab through the wall behind the rear seat(s). Right in the middle, there is a connector (accessible from the outside of the wall). Three wires run under the carpet (along the driver side door) to the dash and the whole wiring maze starts there. smile.gif  The ground wire is black. The Fuel pump +12V wire is most likely grey on your year. Or maybe brown. The fuel gauge wire is probably purple. If you're not sure, you'll have to climb under and look at the physical connector. The pins A B C are Ground, fuel sender, fuel pump.

I assume your fuel ground is missing. But unfortunatelly, I don't have a ground diagram for any car so I can't tell you where it is. You might want to go back to TGO and ask the specific question there.

As for the other grounds (for the instrument cluster), most of them come in from the engine compartment, through the C100. Believe it or not. smile.gif The newer cluster probably requires more grounds than the older one, so I wouldn't worry about the temp wire being temp and just make it a permanent ground,  it won't hurt anything.

SES. Hmm. Well, here's a complete list of wiring diagrams we have here. Scroll halfway down and you'll see 91-92 instrument cluster wiring diagrams. Take it from there.

Hope this helps.
And as I said, if you post your questions on TGO, you'll get more answers. I'm not omnipowerful. smile.gif
Lou


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BigBadLou
post Sep 14 2006, 07:48 AM
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Looking at the SES light wiring ... you still have your old engine in the car or did you swap in a newer TBI or TPI unit?
Cuz your old computer uses pin G (white/dark green) to signal the SES. Check that wire. You will need to connect it to the brown/white wire coming out of C1 (pass side instrument cluster connector).

Hope this helps.
Lou


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cdoyle
post Sep 14 2006, 07:56 AM
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(BigBabyLou";p="26486)
Hey Chris,

it's Lou from TGO. I know why you're here. And I know you need help. Oh right, that's WHY you're here. laugh.gif

First, your fuel gauge. It comes into the cab through the wall behind the rear seat(s). Right in the middle, there is a connector (accessible from the outside of the wall). Three wires run under the carpet (along the driver side door) to the dash and the whole wiring maze starts there. smile.gif  The ground wire is black. The Fuel pump +12V wire is most likely grey on your year. Or maybe brown. The fuel gauge wire is probably purple. If you're not sure, you'll have to climb under and look at the physical connector. The pins A B C are Ground, fuel sender, fuel pump.

I assume your fuel ground is missing. But unfortunatelly, I don't have a ground diagram for any car so I can't tell you where it is. You might want to go back to TGO and ask the specific question there.

As for the other grounds (for the instrument cluster), most of them come in from the engine compartment, through the C100. Believe it or not. smile.gif The newer cluster probably requires more grounds than the older one, so I wouldn't worry about the temp wire being temp and just make it a permanent ground,  it won't hurt anything.

SES. Hmm. Well, here's a complete list of wiring diagrams we have here. Scroll halfway down and you'll see 91-92 instrument cluster wiring diagrams. Take it from there.

Hope this helps.
And as I said, if you post your questions on TGO, you'll get more answers. I'm not omnipowerful. smile.gif
Lou


Ah, well that explains why the fuel gauge doesn't work.   This new dash I got is pretty much complete, it came with all the wires that go along the floor.   So when I took my old dash out, I removed my old wiring along the door too.  Since the new dash looks like it has all the wires for power seats ect.  

Didn't realize that fuel gauge wiring was part of that,   but I don't remember unhooking anything that connected to anywires that went down the middle.  I'll have to look again, to make sure.   I thought the only connctor was in the back that went to the brake lights and hatch.   But I'll look for a purple, in that mess of wires.


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cdoyle
post Sep 14 2006, 07:59 AM
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(BigBabyLou";p="26487)
Looking at the SES light wiring ... you still have your old engine in the car or did you swap in a newer TBI or TPI unit?
Cuz your old computer uses pin G (white/dark green) to signal the SES. Check that wire. You will need to connect it to the brown/white wire coming out of C1 (pass side instrument cluster connector).

Hope this helps.
Lou



I still have the original engine in there,  so the white/green wire.  Is that the wire located on the harness I think it's called c-207?  Near the computer?

If so, I think I may have unhooked the brn/white wire coming from the 91 dash, because I wasn't sure what it was, and didn't want to short something out.  If that's the one, I'll hook it back up.


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BigBadLou
post Sep 14 2006, 08:12 AM
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Put a test light on the white/green that you unhooked. Turn the key and observe the light. If it turns on, it probably is the SES signal wire.

Lou


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cdoyle
post Sep 14 2006, 12:41 PM
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hmm,

I put my meter on the wire, and turned the key, and didn't really get any voltage from that wire.   got like .72v is all.

Just to make sure we are talking about the same wire, I'm talking about the one on the passenger side, near the computer.   There is a doubleconnector with letters a-j I think.

I think the white/green was letter C.


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BigBadLou
post Sep 14 2006, 01:23 PM
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Hmm, strange. That's the right wire (checking the C letter right now).

Try putting the positive lead of the voltmeter on a know 12V source and put the negative lead on the white/green wire. Maybe the SES/CEL light was negative triggered back then ... :dunno:

I'm looking into it.
How did the other things go?

Lou


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cdoyle
post Sep 14 2006, 01:36 PM
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Hmm, strange. That's the right wire (checking the C letter right now).

Try putting the positive lead of the voltmeter on a know 12V source and put the negative lead on the white/green wire. Maybe the SES/CEL light was negative triggered back then ... :dunno:

I'm looking into it.
How did the other things go?

Lou


Haven't had a chance to look for the fuel gauge wire coming out the back, after work I'll give try looking for that.  So it should be just behind where the rear seats were right?   I have the entire interior out, so I should be able to find if it's there.

OK, I tried the positive lead to a 12v method.   When I turn the key, the meter flickers for just a microsecond, not even long enough to get a reading.    It should last longer then that right?  Should be at least a couple seconds at least right?


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BigBadLou
post Sep 14 2006, 01:36 PM
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Hey, did you ever get the C207 pinout for the 1984 models? I know you were looking for it on TGO a lot.

Lou


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BigBadLou
post Sep 14 2006, 01:38 PM
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Yes, you should get a few seconds of the SES light. Or maybe it stays on constantly before you start the engine, I'm not sure.

It's strange.

You can always unplug the computer and put 12V on the white/green wire on the C pin of C207. If the SES light comes on, you know the dash connection is good. And you can look into the harness from C207 to the ECM.

Lou


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cdoyle
post Sep 14 2006, 01:47 PM
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(BigBabyLou";p="26505)
Yes, you should get a few seconds of the SES light. Or maybe it stays on constantly before you start the engine, I'm not sure.

It's strange.

You can always unplug the computer and put 12V on the white/green wire on the C pin of C207. If the SES light comes on, you know the dash connection is good. And you can look into the harness from C207 to the ECM.

Lou


Hi,
No I haven't been able to find the C207 diagram yet, or C100 either.  I've been using some 85 ones I found, but if I could find an 84, that would ensure I got the wires right.

The white/green wire, is coming from the car not the dash.    The wire that goes up into the dash, I'm not sure what color it is.  Brn/white (maybe the one I unhooked because I didn't know what it did)?   I'm not really sure what wire from that harness connects to the bulb in the dash?  
If you know what color it is or what pin on that harness, I'll give that try.


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BigBadLou
post Sep 14 2006, 03:09 PM
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Yes, the brown/white wire from the dash is the SES light wire. Put 12V on it and the indicator should light up.

The white/green wire is not coming from the computer? Namely from pin G? It better.

Lou


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cdoyle
post Sep 14 2006, 03:33 PM
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the white/grn wire is on the white connector I've attached.


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cdoyle
post Sep 14 2006, 03:41 PM
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OK, jsut went back out.  

Yes, the brn/white coming from the dash does connect to the pin on the cluster.  


and the white/grn wire on the white connector is pin C.  According to an 85 C207 diagram I found, it's called the 'light driver module'  whatever that is?


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cdoyle
post Sep 14 2006, 03:43 PM
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I also looked for that fuel gage wire,  I don't see any wires coming through from the outside into the car back there.   The only wires I see go back to the tail lights, and the remote hatch.

I also checked the wires, that used to run along the floor, and the only purple wire is the one for the defogger.

Do you think on the older cars, they routed it through c200?


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BigBadLou
post Sep 14 2006, 04:53 PM
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Alright, trace the white/green from the C207 back to the ECM. Does it connect to ECM pin G?

If your carpet is out, you will see thin wire loom go along the door, then separate before the door ends and go under the rear driver seat to the middle and up behind the rear back seat. It's just behind the rear backrest, about half way up. That's the C313, the fuel pump connector.

Lou


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cdoyle
post Sep 14 2006, 08:51 PM
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(BigBabyLou";p="26511)
Alright, trace the white/green from the C207 back to the ECM. Does it connect to ECM pin G?

If your carpet is out, you will see thin wire loom go along the door, then separate before the door ends and go under the rear driver seat to the middle and up behind the rear back seat. It's just behind the rear backrest, about half way up. That's the C313, the fuel pump connector.

Lou


Well I traced the wire back, and that white/grn wire does go to the ECM.  So I went ahead and hooked it up to the brn/white wire, but it still doesn't light up the SES.  And it's really bothering me becuase all the years I drove this car, I cannot for the life of me remember if the check engine light came on or not when you started the car.  I want to say it did, but then I'm not 100% sure either.  It's really bothering me.

I also looked back for that fuel wiring and there is nothing back there.  I've put dynamat all behind the 'wall' carpet and no connector.  Something else I was thinking about, my fuel pump is under the hood and is mechnical.  So there wouldn't be any wires for that.   So I'm thinking maybe on the older ones it comes in from somewhere else.   If I was to go under the car, where would I see the wires coming out of the tank?

Another thing not sure if it's related to my SES problem,  non of the warning alarms work (headlights on ect)  could that be a ground?  I've checked G200,  and that seemed to be OK and I think that is the ground for the courtesy center.


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